The Return of Wealth Care
I just heard a pundit ask why we shouldn't have "free market health care."
The Frame
This implies that health care is a market - just like a furniture store. It implies that the person seeking health care can choose whether or not they need care.
The Reality
In reality, unlike a furniture store, where you can opt for a less-expensive fabric for your new sofa, or skip the sofa altogether, you can't choose a less expensive cancer. You can't choose a less expensive genetic heart disease. You can't choose a less expensive car accident. If you're in the military, you can't choose less expensive wounds.
Health care is not a commodity, it is a necessity. Illness is not a profit center, it is a cost center. Markets eliminate cost centers, not by providing necessary resources to them, but by ceasing to support them altogether.
We had "free market" health care once, before the advent of health insurance.
People died horrible deaths, they were cast into abject poverty due to simple bad luck, and preventable plagues swept the world.
Broad-based health care was developed to protect us all from these terrible threats.
The Frame
This implies that health care is a market - just like a furniture store. It implies that the person seeking health care can choose whether or not they need care.
The Reality
In reality, unlike a furniture store, where you can opt for a less-expensive fabric for your new sofa, or skip the sofa altogether, you can't choose a less expensive cancer. You can't choose a less expensive genetic heart disease. You can't choose a less expensive car accident. If you're in the military, you can't choose less expensive wounds.
Health care is not a commodity, it is a necessity. Illness is not a profit center, it is a cost center. Markets eliminate cost centers, not by providing necessary resources to them, but by ceasing to support them altogether.
We had "free market" health care once, before the advent of health insurance.
People died horrible deaths, they were cast into abject poverty due to simple bad luck, and preventable plagues swept the world.
Broad-based health care was developed to protect us all from these terrible threats.
posted by rhetoretician at 9:53 PM
31 Comments:
The time to plan for health care is BEFORE YOU GET SICK. The vast majority of illness is caused by poor habits such as eating too much and not exercising.In addition , you should choose a health care plan early on and keep it current.Nothing is free in this world .Working people pays for those who get free medical care as well as paying for thier own care.As with everything in life , poor choices lead to consequences such as illness and poor health.The debate is over who should pay for these poor choices. How about the individual who makes them.Suh a novel idea.
Some very good point anonymous. The free market works great when you allow it to do so. Keep in mind too the problems which occur with the massive government regulations in that industry. Listing all the reasons medical costs have risen is beyond the scope of a blog . However, suffice it to say that one reason is that when people do not pay for their own care they tend not to act to keep the costs down. Think how great it would be if having good health was reason enough for these people to take care of themselves or if compassion for the people who pay their bills would be enough to cause them to act in a rational manner with regard to mitigating health care costs.
But that would be utopia best left for the dreams and fantasies of those who think they live in the fact based world .
Some very good point anonymous. The free market works great when you allow it to do so. Keep in mind too the problems which occur with the massive government regulations in that industry. Listing all the reasons medical costs have risen is beyond the scope of a blog . However, suffice it to say that one reason is that when people do not pay for their own care they tend not to act to keep the costs down. Think how great it would be if having good health was reason enough for these people to take care of themselves or if compassion for the people who pay their bills would be enough to cause them to act in a rational manner with regard to mitigating health care costs.
But that would be utopia best left for the dreams and fantasies of those who think they live in the fact based world .
Thanks anonymouses.
While it is true that there are many elements of healt under the control of the individual, there are many that are not. I know vegetarians with out-of-control cholesterol due to genetics, not diet or exercise. I know a person whose knee was destroyed in a car accident that was someone else's fault. I know someone whose kidneys failed due to an undetected strep infection.
While we should come up with incentives for people to try exercise control over their own health, there are significant limits to what's under their control.
The other assumption you're making is that people can afford to buy there own healt insurance. Vast numbers of Americans cannot. It's not because they're lazy or too ignorant to understand the importance, but because their wages cannot adequately cover food, rent, electricity, heat, etc. For them health coverage is a luxury they can't even consider. So they wait to get treated until they're sicker, which means more expensive treatment, leaving the rest of us to foot the bill. It's a well documented phenomenon.
lets look at these excuses
While it is true that there are many elements of health under the control of the individual, there are many that are not.
A I know vegetarians with out-of-control cholesterol due to genetics, not diet or exercise.
so you want me to step in and pay for the genetic problems these people have ? no your genetic predispostions to illness and prepare for them or refrain from having children. it is not up to me to solve the problems of nature
B.I know a person whose knee was destroyed in a car accident that was someone else's fault.
your friend had recourse to whoever caused that accident.it was NOt the tax payers fault!if your friend had even the slightest common sence he or she would have had either the proper car insurance or health insurance.
C. I know someone whose kidneys failed due to an undetected strep infection.
that person either did not look after his or her care well enough or the doctor who provided care was negligent.seek recourse but please dp not come looking to the taxpayer to bail you out.
you also say .....
While we should come up with incentives for people to try exercise control over their own health, there are significant limits to what's under their control.
to this i answer
having good health should be the greatest incentive.
you continue with ...
The other assumption you're making is that people can afford to buy there own healt insurance. Vast numbers of Americans cannot. It's not because they're lazy or too ignorant to understand the importance, but because their wages cannot adequately cover food, rent, electricity, heat, etc. For them health coverage is a luxury they can't even consider. So they wait to get treated until they're sicker, which means more expensive treatment, leaving the rest of us to foot the bill. It's a well documented phenomen
to this i respond...
i assume no such thing. you are the one jumping to asumptions.in this case that i assume people can afford insurance.people can not afford many things in life. the answer is to do better in life so that they can afford them.you know darn well that you do know many people who are lazy or do not value their health , or just take it for granted.even still the question arises as to why i and other tax payers should step in to foot the bill.
people such as yourself tend to be very nieve about the poor. you make a lot of assumptions based on a romantic notion you have of that class much of it based on your exposer to novels by charles dickens and the like. you get much of your views of the rich in the same way.both are far from the reality
infact, you are one of the greatest causes of poverty in america despite your intentions.Even bill clinton realized that governement programs like welfare have caused people to become dependent on these handouts for generations.your good intentions are the cause of many a hungry belly TONIGHT !
the answer to poverty and hunger is not another gvt handout. people such as yourself will always disagree on this mattter with those of my political persuasion.however i do respect those who have convictions. that is why i hope that you will dig deep in your pocket and find the money it takes to supply people with what you think they need.i hope too you will resist the temptation to dig into my pockets to pay for these programs.charity is a wonderful thing.but it is best when it comes from the individual and not the government.i will be impressed when i see people on your side take a poor family into your home and support them. pay for everything they need , food, clothing,health care etc. you have a view of the world. step up the the plate and support it.you have that freedom. but please dont expect me to finance what i consider a very misguided and nieve attempt to effect change.
Funny you should say this:
"i will be impressed when i see people on your side take a poor family into your home and support them. pay for everything they need , food, clothing, health care etc. you have a view of the world."
The reality is that our family has done just that. We've even set up an ongoing non-profit community fund to help them get onto their feet. The (single) mom is currently working on a certificate that will enable her to earn more money, because of the support we and others are providing. How about you?
So now that we've settled that, my worldview says that my success is based on the contributions of other people (the roads paid for by my grandparents' tax dollars, the computer network funded by my parents' tax dollars, the health care system provided by those same tax dollars, the public schools funded, again with those tax dollars, the telephone network funded with those tax dollars, the fire department, the police...). Those factors combined with some luck, and some smarts, gave me the option to do better in life because the factors that made success possible were accessible to me and I had the good fortune to be able to take advantage of them.
I went to a good college because I had parents who could enable that. I got a good job partly because I went to a good college, partly because I knew the right people, and partly because I was smart. I needed all those factors to get where I am. I needed both the supportive ecosystem and the natural talents. I did better in life because the infrastructure was there to make it possible. Everyone who succeeds "makes it" on the backs of others.
I know some very smart people who began life with several strikes against them - poor, hungry, and not connected to the networks of people who could help them succeed - including the family we've adopted. Hungry kids don't learn as well as their talents would allow. Hungry kids get sick more often. Hungry parents, earning minimum wage can't make ends meet. It's a downward spiral into desperation.
It's my duty, as a citizen of this country, who benefited from the hard work of those who came before me, to "pay it forward."
It's the dividend you pay in return for society's investment in you.
you missed the point completely. however, in doing so you made mine.the fact that you are giving so much to a needy family is fantastic. this is exactly the kind of charity i advocate and practice. people need to see that there is a cost to what is given to them by those who are doing the giving. welfare entitlements send the wrong message. also, when you give this way you will keep a closer watch on the recipients and make sure the money will do some actual good.
This works much better than government programs that have little oversight and which end perpetuating the same things they claim to seek to ameliorate.
We all agree that taxes are needed to fund society. The question is just how big and all encompassing you want it. police, fire, the roads....that is not what republicans and democrats are debating as you well know. Putting that in there to make your point should have been beneath you.
Perhaps this experience with this family you are helping will change your view as to how to better effect the lives of those less fortunate than you. My hope too is that it may provide a way for you to do the good you wish without reaching into my pocket to fund your desires.
i agree with anonymous.the left doesnt want to return the dividend.it wants to increase that dividend beyond what this country intended
however, i do notice that you both have concluded that direct charity is a truley viable form of aid despite coming from such opposite directions.
Private charity is great, but has limitations. As an example, we took on a local family in crisis because the social safety net has been decimated to the point where they can't even get fuel assistance until late enough this year that they'd freeze without other help. This is good for helping them get through the crisis, and may put them on a better path.
But what if we lose our income?
Public programs are meant to share the burden of civilzed society across all members of the society. Everyone pays a little to keep the children, the elderly, and those beset by bad fortune afloat. And yes, some of them DO deserve their fate, but most do not. A social contract was created in which the society agreed that it was unwise to continue the system of poor houses and debtors prisons. The Great Society and New Deal were created to give the citizens of our country a fighting chance against the rotten odds most people are dealt at birth.
So, again, what happens to the family we adopted if we lose our income stream, perhaps due to a layoff?
At a minimum, they will not be able to afford food, electricity, heat. They will lose their apartment, which costs $50 less per month than her full time income (and don't even suggest cheaper rent - there's nothing out there, we've been looking).
So again, what happens? What happens? Because we HAVE lost our income stream due to a layoff.
Guess who loses? It's not us, because unemployment insurance hasn't been eliminated, yet, and our combined skillset should land at least one of us a job before it runs out (though probably not both). We'll have to tighten our belts (a lot), but we'll be OK.
Unfortunately there's a woman with 3 young children, working a full time minimum-wage job, in dire straights, who is about to face the harshest winter of her life. We can't help them substantially anymore.
We have to hope that the fund contributions pick WAAAAAY up, or they're doomed, because her fellow citizens decided a few years back that buying the latest DVD, or SUV, or snazzy outfit to contributing to help "the least among us" through a few dollars a year in taxes.
In the words of St. Thomas Aquinas:
[Greed] "is a sin directly against one's neighbor, since one man cannot over-abound in external riches, without another man lacking them."
On some quiet night soon, spend a moment thinking about what it would be like to send your 7-year-old to bed crying from hunger because you couldn't afford to feed him that day and there was no school, so he couldn't get free breakfast or lunch (programs that are on the tax "reform" chopping block).
Poverty is very real. It doesn't play games. Good people starve, or freeze, innocent people suffer.
We all look at things differently. You seem to be suggesting that people are greedy because they do not wish to part with their money.
". Everyone pays a little to keep the children, the elderly, and those beset by bad fortune afloat. "
we differ on what a little amounts to. i consider what i pay to be a lot. in fact i feel it is far too much. when you add federal, state and local taxes, not to mention sales tax, it amounts to over 60 percent of my earnings. so it all amounts to your outlook. you consider people such as myself to be greedy while i consider myself over burdened. i support my own 3 children and also help out an elderly parent. I think I do more than my fair share.you , apparently feel i dont.we have to agree to disagree on that.
People use words and phrases differently. You claim to have "adopted" this family and ask what will happen to them now that you are unemployed. You go on to say that you and your family will be all t but ponder the fate of this woman and her 3 children.
It seems we use the word "adopted" to mean very different things. My wife and I adopted 2 children who have profound challenges becoming lucky enough to have our birth daughter. no matter if I lose my job or not, my adopted children will be OK. you see, when we adopt someone it means something very different from it means to you.
as to your "adopted" family, i wonder about their true circumstances. prior to attempting to have children or to adopting we made sure that we could afford all the costs of raising a child in a responsible manner. perhaps this woman had some extraordinary mishaps befall her. however, most women in her situation have made very poor choices. remember, she has had 3 children. if they are not triplets or twins, she made a decision 3 times or the same mistake, or a combination of the two. perhaps you consider her one of the poor "victims" you describe. i view most of these people as causing their own misery and the suffering their children face. Regardless, you are certainly free to help them out if you feel it is warranted. I would prefer to make my own choices on who is worthy of my charitable dollar.
you make quite a poignant plea when you write
"On some quiet night soon, spend a moment thinking about what it would be like to send your 7-year-old to bed crying from hunger because you couldn't afford to feed him that day and there was no school, so he couldn't get free breakfast or lunch (programs that are on the tax "reform" chopping block"
that struck quite a chord with me since just a few nights past i had to explain to my son why he could not attempt to learn how to play hockey this winter, or try to play baseball this summer. as i pondered the challenges he will face if he reaches adult age, i can not help but feel greedy for wanting to keep more of my money so that i might provide for whatever he must endure. I have made sure that all my children will have a home and food and as many dvds as they wish. in the case of my son and one of my daughters movies will provide one of the few diversions which they will always be able to enjoy.I can provide better for them than can the government.
think how handy those tax dollars you have been paying would be now. think also how much more helpful they would be going directly to the needy rather than thru a government bureaucracy as was pointed out by someone earlier
although you seem well meaning , it seems dishonest to use words incorrectly .When you adopt a human being it isnt like a puppy from a pound,adoption a human being is a lifetime commitment not somthing you do when your flush with money. Good luck to you and those of whom you speak.
The left always uses words in a dishonest manner. In this case the word adoption is misapplied to make the writer seem saintly. notice the invocation of saint Thomas Aquinas as well.
3 KIDS???? since its christmas season (oops not pc here on a left wing blog site) why dont we here her sad story ? im sure it will bring tears to our eyes how this poor victim was FOOLED into having 3 children .perhaps she was raped, maybe by her father?or was she just a victim of society and its lack of free birth control?maybe she had no idea each time she got pregnant ? perhaps someone should have told her how this was happening to her. is she from a red state? so many of those simple people beleive in creation.maybe she is one of them and doesnt understand how her body works.
http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/ this is a must have book for her. this would be the best gift you could give her before she has 3 more.i wish this poor victim all the best during the holiday season.
It seems your "adopted" mother has made some very bad choices over and over and over again.what are you doing to teach her how to prevent more of these mistakes in the future.Most of these people are hopless. If you press her you will see that she has made many more mistakes in the past that you dont know about .You will find many quit school without good reason.My bet is that you are fighting a losing battle here.You are better off helping someone who is willing to take it and learn from it as well.
Some good comments here but maybe you would do better to help her pay to have her tubes tied.I feel for the kids since this mother certainly will not think of them before herself.
Nice how you all assume the mother is in this predicament because of poor choices on her part. The end of their middle class existence came as a result of a sudden trauma removing her husband (and his paycheck) from their lives. I'll run right over and tell her that her REAL problem was that she failed to have her tubes tied. I'm sure it will help. I bet it'll make the kids feel better, too. (Note: I am intentionally avoiding describing the trauma to preserve their privacy. If that bothers you, tough. They've been through enough.)
Adopt = to take on all the expenses not covered by her pay (rent = pay - $50) and social services (= food stamps, nothing else for several months due to budget cuts, though in my personal opinion, food stamps are inadequate to feed growing children, so additional food was provided).
To the "anonymous" whose family adopted two children, you have done a wonderful thing! I'm glad you planned it out. I hope your family does not lose all its income for long enough to eat whatever nest egg you might have stored up.
In the mean time, none of you offered any useful suggestions for my friend's family. What should she do? She's already working full time. She is already in the lowest-rent housing. Any constructive suggestions? This isn't a facetious request - if anyone has any survival strategies, please share and I will pass them along.
And while we're at it, any constructive discussion on how to deal with health care? (That is, after all, the topic of the post.)
trauma my ass. she made poor choices . she had more children than she could handle. planning includes taking into account thing which happen in life. SUCH AS A DEAD BEAT DAD, or a divorce or a job loss, or any number of things which may happen in life. it is not our job to step in for those who plan poorly.
as for strategies for stretching a dollar...
the first is tio move to a cheaper state.there are many places which offer cheaper living costs,cheaper heating bills etc.ofcourse she could move to a state which offers more welfare options and thus toss her problems onto other people.
the second thing she could consider is to move where there are more jobs or where jobs pay more.las vegas is one of the best choices. here anyone can earn a decent living. i know people who clean rooms for a living and make better than 30 grand.that goes a long way here. also you have people driving cabs making 50 grand or more. im using the lowest skill levels here.
when i first arrived in nevada i had less than 500 bucks in my pocket. i now own a nice home and am raising a family.i work in the casino industry and wrked my way up the ladder.this is a place of dramatic growth but there are other areas of the country which are doing the same
i say get off your ass and start making this happen
Health care is doing just fine in this country for those people who take their health seriously.There is little you can do when most people would prefer to stuff their faces and sit around drinking beer.Even less you can do to convince people to plan for a rainy day . It is just a fact that some people will not face.
The best thing you can do to help ease suffering is to not ad to it by creating programs which encourage more of the same.After that the next best thing you can do is educate people on making wise choices in life.That will do far more than handing out money or food . The problem is so many people want an instant fix. Hard work is considered evil in some quarters these days.Studying and saving for the future quaint concepts.look around and take notice of everyone you know who is healthy and not working.Pay attention to how hard they are actually looking for a job. Unenployent compensation is a great example. Do you realize how many people collect to the very last week they are eligable?then, like magic, a job appears for them .I know several people who have no interest in working at all or work the bare minimum needed to survive.meanwhile , the rest of us are working 70 or 80 hrs per week or more and we are being asked to contribute a greater percentage of that labor to those who for whatever reason are not working.
trauma? we all have trauma in our lives . cry me a river! tell it to the wives , the mothers , and the children of our soldiers in the middle east.i agree with the other bloggers above who stressed self- reliance and planning.sure , some good people do find theselves in a bad way in rare times. that is what friends and family are for . if your not my friend or my family dont come looking to pick my pocket,. i pay enough . if you think i dont thats not your concern. you are more than welcome to work a few more hours and donate your money. oh i forgot, your not working now either.so now you want your charity case to becoe mine? how pathetic. fnd the father and make him pay. juat leave me alone
Wrong answer. The father was hospitalized in November and will probably never return home.
Try again.
BTW - Have you considered decaf?
Regarding moving to las Vegas, it looks like that would be a one of those poor choices:
From KLAS TV Apr. 26, 2004
A new report out of Washington says Nevada has the second fastest-growing food stamp system in the nation. The number of people needing help almost doubled over a four-year time span.
...
This truly highlights the impact of the Valley's growth on state services. Four years ago more than 61,000 people received food stamps every month in Nevada. That number has now grown to 119,000 a month -- and climbing. While the increased demand will tax the state coffers, many in Las Vegas are happy to see such a dramatic change.
...
The state blames growth in the Las Vegas Valley for the increase in food stamp recipients. While the program is helping more people, critics say it's falling short.
...
UNLV researcher Hal Rothman says the increase in food stamp usage also highlights the financial problems many new Valley residents have once they move here. He says the Valley's population is growing faster than the economy. And what new jobs are being created, are low paying.
You do not want a solution. you want a reason to complain.That is why you never get anything done.Here in LasVegas the economy is excellent.Perhaps the food stamp program is growing becouse people are atracted to this place.anywhere you find success you will find bums and vagrants .Grow up and stop reading and hearing what you want. Also , i have a feeling the way you are telling this story about the woman is a lie.You wont adit to anything in regards to her case.Just a poor victim who had nothing to do with her situation? I think not. But what do you expect from the left ?You always calling people liars yet you will do or say anything to make your point.This woman and her situation is a perfect example. I would bet my house that a closer inspection would prove myself and others here were correct.this is why your side continues to lose respect.
Las Vegas is growing in leaps and bounds. As a contractor I have seen first hand that the demand for skilled and non skilled labor is way up . I know many small business owners who agree that service related positions pay much better here .It is true that we have our share of vagrants and low lifes but Vegas is a really great place for young familes.If someone is starting over or wants to continue to prosper this is the place.I wouldnt recommend anyone come here without a decent amount of money to get started nor would I suggest someone with a gambling addiction to head out this way . But if you are willing to work the ski is the limmit.good luck to you and to the young lady .
Thanks to the most recent anonymous poster. The poster before you seems to have trust issues, LOL!
I understand your point. Unfortunately, this family needs to be able to stay near where the father is, so they can visit. Vegas is too far away.
For people with the skills to take the better-paying jobs, Vegas sounds like a good choice. For the lowest-level service jobs, it sounds like a "must-miss."
Thanks for the good wishes, though. She's a very sweet person in a really crappy situation. Another friend just created a web site for her, and she's going to take a shot at making jewelry to earn some extra income. As soon as we have a web store up, I'll post a link. It'll be a few weeks (she needs to make some things to sell) and we need to put together a database. I expect it to launch in February or early March.
I just came across an interesting web site, and looked up the Vegas area of Nevada out of curiosity. http://www.nlihc.org/oor2004/data.php?getstate=on&getmsa=on&msa%5B%5D=211&state%5B%5D=NV
My firend is better off where she is, where she only needs $13.42 per hour to afford a 2 bedroom apartment (still much more than she earns, but less than she'd need to add if she moved, especially since our state's minimum wage is higher than that in NV).
--------------------------------
Here's the Las Vegas Nevada data:
[Note: A unit is considered affordable if it costs no more than 30% of the renter's income.]
In Nevada, an extremely low income household (earning $16,923, 30% of the Area Median Income of $56,412) can afford monthly rent of no more than $423, while the Fair Market Rent for a two bedroom unit is $880.
A minimum wage earner (earning $5.15 per hour) can afford monthly rent of no more than $268.
An SSI recipient (receiving $600 monthly) can afford monthly rent of no more than $180, while the Fair Market Rent for a one-bedroom unit is $740.
[note: SSI is for disabled people]
In Nevada, a worker earning the Minimum Wage ($5.15 per hour) must work 131 hours per week in order to afford a two-bedroom unit at the area's Fair Market rent.
The Housing Wage in Nevada is $16.92. This is the amount a full time (40 hours per week) worker must earn per hour in order to afford a two-bedroom unit at the area's Fair Market rent.
with logic like that your friend will be poor forever. your not helping her , your hurting her. reality in vegas is as follows. unskilled labor such as cleaning rooms pays min wage PLUS tips. we know several such workers who OWN homes rather than rent .the same can be said for many jobs which depend on tips. cab drivers can expect a 6 figure income if they work hard. the gated community where i live has a wide variety of people most of whom came here to escape the high cost of southern calafornia.although dont know where she is living i can not imagine that she would be better off than in vegas. are you sure that you are not trying to justify your politics through this poor woman ? remember , many people came a long way to this country . it is not unreasonable to move to another state to make a better life for youself and your children
What happened to the father ? Is he ill ? Will he ever be able to work again ? I have followed these postings with the hope that all this would be explained. It seems like a tragic event yet we are left in the dark as to the particulars.good luck to this family.
Where does this woman live? Atleast give us the state. it is hard to imagine a state that is so uncaring and will not help its poor atleast eat. Have they consiidered moving to massachusetts? Our state will take care of the minimum requirements at the very least.What a sad state of affairs. Looking forward to your response.
concerned in the bay state
I'm not going to give specifics for privacy reasons (their story was all over the local news, which traumatized the kids, and I don't want curious people digging around to track them down), but the father was hospitalized in November and will not likely ever be able to return home. If he does, his ability to earn any income will be severely hampered.
We live in a "blue" state. The state has programs similar to Massachusetts, some better, some worse. The problem is that with all the budget cuts over the last decade at the state and federal level, combined with the private organizations' donation streams drying up due to the unemployment rate, there's just not enough money available in an emergency. Everything has a long waiting list. Heat assistance will come in another month. Food assistance, in January. Housing aid, possibly in April, but maybe as far out as next November, depending on what happens in terms of donations to a private local housing assistance charity.
In a way, this family is lucky, because the publicity means that lots of people knew that help was needed, so private donations have helped. It truly stinks to watch her working so hard, and know that it's so far from enough to cover even the basics. I hate to think of the poeple in similar situations that we don't know about.
For the folks who insist that the American dream is available to all, I'm glad their lives have not been so disrupted. I hope they never experience a trauma that puts them into similar straits. Life can turn from good to bad with no warning, in a second. There's a chance that at some point in the future, their lives will return to an even keel, but right now things are very, very hard. Not because of laziness, or a desire for handouts (she is VERY uncomfrotable accepting other people's money), but because of a moment of bad luck.
I know the case you are talking about.I will refrain from giving all the facts. However , the situation is not as you paint it. you have been dishonest to say the least.The situation was caused by actions of one of the individuals involved. The american dream is alive and well. just look at the numbers of people fighting to get into this country.this family is blessed. they are getting help from the tax payer as well as from private charities.Free health care is being provided for the children.Im not trying to minimize her situation for it is grave. But it is also the result of behavior and not luck as you claim.I feel sorry for the children . Leave it at that.
If you now the situation, then you know it's very hard to describe the situation without giving away enough details to invade their privacy and further traumatize them. If you know the situation, you may know who I am. I'd be happy to talk with you about the details offline.
There are circumstances that are not part of the public record or the local umor mill. If you knew more, I'm certain you'd agree with my assessment that this is a case of bad luck - one for which the mother and kids bear no responsibility but all of the burden.
Regardless of the unreported information, based on the information reported, do you feel it's OK to let the mom and kids go hungry and homeless? Do you feel they deserve it? Or maybe just the mom?
Yes, the local community, has been wonderfully supportive. It's the kind of community that you can be proud of. I certainly am. Unfortunately, the private donations are far short of what's needed to get them through the winter - even if the taxpayer funded programs had come through at this point. They are on waiting lists for everything. Heating assistance is the first to come online, in a couple more weeks.
As for people fighting to get into this country - no one is implying that this is a bad country. People like me simply believe that there's room for improvement.
There was a time we aspired to be the shining example for the world, to be the leader in all ways, not just money and weaponry. Lately, it seems, we've reduced our aspirations, we've become quitters where the hard problems are concerned.
We are a shining example to the world. I want us to be an example of freedom . I want us to be an example of choice. This womans case is a perfect example. I made a choice in this case to do somthing . TO me local people are best able to determine who is truly needy. Charity is not supposed to be forced on people.
no , i dont know you . If you are the woman who is pictured with Dean I think I may have seen you in passing.]The important thing is that you have shown concern and desire to help this family . Thats a good thing.But you own your feelings. you shoud not expect others to think like you do . It doesnt make you better than them .I m sure you dont want the religeous right telling you what is moral and what is not.In many parts of the world you are told when and where to pray. When you try to force people to give you become just like the people you hate.
as for the family in question ? The children have no blame. Thats why i helped. I dont wish to say anymore.I dont care about the issues of blame. Society was not at fault.All that matters to me is people coming together to help solve the problem.FOr me , these are things best done by local people.Without saying much more I will tell you this. I recently employed some people who were in a similar situation. Although they were from another state.The results were mixed . but the children were able to eat . This involved actually bringing the family into my house.The disrution to our family life was difficult to say the least.But when one has convictions ones action follow from them. Real answers are not easy. It often sounds like big daddy can cme in and solve them in an instant.But freedom isnt cheap. Not in terms of dollars or in terms of actions.Despite what you think about the war in iraque , real americans are giving up the ultimate sacrafice. What we do here is small in comparison.So before you look to others to paty for your beliefs think if you are doing all you can. Very few do.Do you have room in your own home? You do .
I am not suggesting this as an answer. Im just pointing out that even well meaning people such as yourself have limits to your giving and what you will give up in your comfortable world.Others have the same.Dont look down on them as that means others who do more than you can do the same.
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